Transcript of Interview with Nathan Hole Do you identify with a certain group of people? Who are you? That's a scary question. As for the first, not specifically I identify myself as being in between group of people, kind of like being one foot in each water, or like linked to different groups. And which groups are those? Well you would need to define group. Well lets say culture. What cultures do you identify with and why? Cultural groups being European not French because both of my parents arent french with a certain warmth towards American and Russian Culture the warmth could be described as family attachement. But not in the cultural sense as in you feel national pride Do feel a national attachement to american or Russia? As in political movements, traditions etc. Probably because these are two cultures representative of my childhood, the mother and father figure well, childhood memories, passport. What aspects exactly do you identify with each culture/country? Transmission of tradition The cultural backround of Europe the passion and emotionnal side to Russia like my soul feels Russian I feel European with a zest of Americanism. How exactly do you define that emotion and passion? So how do you define yourself as being a citizen of the world, free spirited and universal. What exactly is a citizen of the world? How do you define that? Someone who has been raised with multiple nationals and that adopts a more international perspective. Someone who does not have strong nationalist pride And feels more connected to people in general. And so in your opinion do you believe that being from two different backgrouns has helped you achieve this... identity? Well not only being from two different backgrounds but being born in a third one. My father is American, My mom is Russian But I was born in France. How did those two happen to reside in France Circumstances. Allright I'll say it. Yes, please. My mom after living in Russia at that time USSR moved to Germany with her family finishing her high school. When she was around 18-19, she decided to move to Paris not liking life in Germany. At that time, my father was working closely on projects regarding the construction of oil pipelines in the Caucasus and flew constantly to Russia Being between the US and Russia, he needed to stay somewhere in between and decided to live in Paris They met randomly in Monaco at that time and decided to stay in France. Before I was born, they would constantly travel to Russia and New York. Do you know what language they spoke together? Did your father speak Russian? English / Russian So, yes it would depend on circumstances. My dad spoke russian since he was a kid, having a Russian Nanny. Did he speak any other languages? English, French, Chinese fluently and a couple more. My father was born and raised in China till age 13. Can you tell me about your father? So... The reason I consider myself citizen of the world is because I come from a family that has moved every generation. My father was born and raised in China, his family being American, originally from New York. However with the war with the Japanese and the advent of Mao Tse Tung rise, all of their wealth was confiscated by the state and they were encouraged to leave. My father then took a boat to the US where he pursued high school and college. My mother was born and raised in Russia with German origins. Germans migrated to Russia in the 19th Century because the Queen at that time needed skillful workers for her ambitious tastes. She lived on the border of the Oural, the mountains, which bring to Siberia, in the artic circle. She then moved to Germany with her family It seems that I am continuing that family trend of hours of moving abroad. After all I was born and raised in France but recently moved to New York. Although part of my roots reside here, it is still life changing. When I was little, I always had the feeling I wasn’t as everyone else because I never spoke French at home. I would speak Russian and English at home with both my mom and dad While using French at school. Now most of the kids I was friends with have double nationalities or are pluricultural. Do you remember feeling different as a child because of this? This progressively forged me into having this idea that I have nothing in me that is French but my roots lie in Europe. I think my generation is one of the first of our time to have a European sentiment, feeling like they are part of a European culture. Of course I'm not saying that the majority of my generation feels that way, we are a minority but, the whole feeling isn’t merely avant garde anymore, Its foundation is solid and expanding This feeling of being pluricultural is hard to digest during your teenage years. You feel like being inadequate, not part of everything but the more you grow and gain in maturity, the stronger those foundations which gives you global perspective, great asset in our times Furthermore, having a more of a global cultural identity has prompt me to travel a lot and discover other cultures which in time strengthens the feeling of being part of humanity as a whole. To understand that right and wrong can be a cultural, social or religious view. In the end it all depends from which angle you perceive the subject from What do you think has made it expand? Globalization? So during your childhood do you have any memories of your first language? Which one was first? Tricky question. I don’t have any memory whatsoever of what my first language was. My dad always spoke to me in English. My mom always spoke to me in Russian. Had both Russian and American nannies. And to keep the language going I'd be taken care of during summer by American students. Did you visit Russia ever as a child? Because Russian was a language I would only use with family as a child. When I was 5 I thought Russian was a family language. My parents and I would fly from time to time to Russia. Do you remember what that was like? What were your impressions of Russia? Once when I was around 5, upon getting there, everyone spoke Russian. So I turned to my mom and told her "we have a really big family". That’s cute. Hard to describe my impressions of Russia. Well what do you remember about it? I still have the USSR vision of Russia. I remember tanks and army on the highways the cold and snow in a big park. Did that seem really strange to you compared with France? Well not really, when you are young you do not really take those things into account. You more or less take them for granted. When was the last time you went there? All I remember is that at that time because there were soldiers all around, I thought Russia was a mighty country. In 1992 or 1993. Oh so you were about 10 years old? Indeed. Would you go to visit family? No, most of my family moved to Germany. I would go there for business purposes. My dad had an office there. My mom and I would accompany him. I see, working with the Russian pipelines? Oil pipelines in the Caucasus. At that time it wasn’t merely Russia. It was the Soviet Union. That’s what I meant. Everything was centralized in Moscow. So is your family religious at all? Your last name sounds very Jewish. Not exactly, spiritual would be the more appropriate term. I have Jewish origins from my father's side but he was never religious. So neither of your parents was very religious? My mom is catholic and would go every once in a while to church like on Christmas or Easter. I was baptized in Moscow in an Orthodox church then did my communion in a catholic church. I see, so you were actually brought up with some religion? Yeah, then I followed Kabala briefly. I certainly do have a judeo Christian religious background. I was actually influenced by my classmates though, Kind of embarrassing story. But one of my friends at that time told me about the communion, getting presents and all. Since I wasn’t really brought up through religion I decided to do it because I would get gifts. I think a lot of children are like that. My family taught me spirituality not dogma. What kind of spirituality? Can you explain? Well, that is why today I would be somewhere in between deism and agnosticism. Spirituality is a vague term to express the fact that you do believe in more than just physical. You believe the interconnectivity of everything in the universe from the atom to the universe. Like Buddhism? You believe that there may be a greater purpose. Well Buddhism is somewhat similar except I have more of a judeo Christian root. You just don’t stop at naming any religion in particular as yours? Well, for instance the 10 commandments, whether written or not by god are good values. They are moral standards applicable to any society whether religious or not. That’s true. We shouldn’t have to follow them just because we are afraid of going to hell. Let’s just say that I don’t believe I need religion as I mean to feel connected to the rest. I believe my connection to everything is solely individual and based on my own experience. Everyone should have the choice of using whatever means necessary to channel himself whether religion, philosophy and so on. Furthermore, having a more of a global cultural identity has prompt me to travel a lot and discover other cultures which in time strengthens the feeling of being part of humanity as a whole. To understand that right and wrong can be a cultural, social or religious view. In the end it all depends from which angle you perceive the subject from. Finding spirituality doesn’t just come automatically, are there any life-changing experiences in particular which have lead you to these beliefs? I lost my father when I was thirteen, this brought unpleasant turmoil to my family and changed my life radically. During my teenage years, I had trouble identifying with a specific group because I felt so different. I had lost a parent, I was multicultural, Had no religious ax yet wasn’t atheist either which got me really lost and confused. After finishing high school I needed to find my roots and decided to go on a backpacking trip to China to find out more about my father's past. Now China being so different from where I grew up made me understand that the world isn’t just one vision, but infinite visions of reality. In a sense, by traveling there, not only I found out more about my father, discovered a place and tried new thing. This trip kind of cleared my head and I realized that we were all part of a whole as different as we are. From then on I decided to go backpacking every summer. I then went to Chile, Bolivia, and Peru, where I spent most of my time living with locals hence discovering fully culture and traditions. Went to Vietnam, Eastern Europe. I’m proud to say that I have friends of all nationalities, religion and color. Could you tell me about a specific moment or situation on one of your trips that have left a mark on you? This can be a person you've met too. During my trips, I was lucky enough to meet very interesting people as well as encounter odd situations. We started drifting around and instead of staying in Chile, went north to Bolivia. Now at that time the country was on the brink of civil war. Most of the roads were closed and bus drivers would tell us that driving during the night was unsafe and extremely dangerous. Yet we managed going on and got to La Paz, the capital. Now originally we were making way to go to Peru, while seeing a couple of amazing landscapes. But like I was saying the country was in civil war. rRoads were obliterated but broken pavement, while angry mobs ruled the city. The ever growing presence of military rendered the situation uneasy and one could see burning cars, illuminated roads as giant iron candle sticks. Now being a foreigner and going through such a stage in a countries history is extremely enriching because these inequalities, however serious they can be in your country of origin, are more strongly demonstrated in a poor country. One can finally grasp how the world is filled with conflictuous passions. Were you ever afraid? I wouldnt say I was afraid because we didnt encounter any potential life threatening situations with locals. The military were very suspicious but most of the people we met told us we should leave immediatly because it is unsafe. General population is usually always friendly. Occasionally you would bump into people that disliked foreigners but thats always a minority. From there on we headed to Peru, saw a couple of breathtaking if not life changing views. Let me point out the fact, that humanity has built such jewel across the world that merely seeing thus wonderful masterpieces enables to see what potential we have. Not only that, but nature also has amazing treasures to share. Coming back to the original story, after hanging out in Peru for a while we were bound to head back 2000km south to eventually get back to our plane. The only problem was, we drifted so far away, that we started having financial issues. Furthermore, we were in such remote areas that no one could actually transfer us any money through western union or money gram. We literally had just barely enough to pay for buses, so we started fasting for 2days. Now fasting while being constantly on the move with a 15kg bag on ur back and under scorching heat was harder than expected. During one of the bus rides, which was a 15h bus ride by the way, I started feeling dehydrated and nauseous. I started seeing stars and couldnt get up anymore. Actually my friend told me I turned green, so I got myself together and started begging for water. In a bus filled with peruvian farmers we were the only foreigners. One of them shared his orange juice with me. This helped me greatly, but the experience of having literally nothing and having to beg for water and supplies was truly a horrible yet strong experience to bear. Yeah, it must make you appreciative of what you have. It also stirs up the instinct of survival. Where else have you traveled? I have travelled also to China, Vietnam, Mexico, Eastern Europe. What about people you met on your trips? I have met very interesting people on my trips. The most intriguing person I have met is during my Vietnam expedition in 2005. I was waiting for a friend to join me from Thailand and had some time to kill. So I decided to visit Ho Ghi Minh City (formerly Saigon) and its surroundings. Now in Vietnam there are diverse religions such as Buddhism, Christianity and the latter Cao Daisme. Now Cao Dai is a religion which holds 7 million worshipers throughout the world but the actual root of it is in Vietnam. It is rather complicated to explain, but it more or less a combination of Buddhism, Christianity and Humanism. The practice is mainly inspired by Buddhism but the belief in a certain divine order, the all seeing eye (judeo christian) with reincarnation. Their temples are usually extremely colorful, with blue ceilings, very different from what we are used to seeing in the Western World. I was visiting one of those temples, enjoying the new scenery and started talking to one of the monks. After some platonic chit chat he asked me where I was from, so I cut the story short and told him I was visiting from France. He then asked me if I was interested to talk in french with one of the people there. I naturally accepted and followed the monk behind the altar, towards the private chambers. I met up with a very old man, probably in his 80s. It was hard to understand him because the communist regime under Ho Chi Minh cut his tongue off. Let me remind you that communist regime heavily repressed any religious ideas and concepts. It turned out progressively that the man was more than merely a priest. He was the equivalent of what we would call the Pope in the Catholic Church. He started showing all these letters from political personalities such as Henry Kissinger, Jacques Chirac the former president of France, The Queen of England, Australia's prime minister. I was literally amazed encountering such a prestigious man. He was so humble, so human, so far away from politics, very down to earth if I may say. Now having this opportunity and to talk about spirituality with someone so highly respected in that part of the world was truly an honor. He gave me some of his written teachings which I brought back to Paris with me, not to practice my newly discovered religion but to remember that moment in my life. So tell me how you feel about being half American. Nothing specific, I have always had a certain warmth towards the US. I'm definetly not as patriotic as the average American and also may have developed a more critical approach towards what America is. Living in New York is great. Ive always wanted to spend some of my life in the US. You have to understand that although I was raised in France there are certain things that were passed on to me as American culture. For instance the fact of being able to celebrate Halloween within the US was something I really enjoyed. I have always wanted to celebrate it in the real surrounding. Do people take you for an American or do they tell you that you seem European? I feel more european culturally speaking, however when I talk with people and have random conversations, they wouldnt know that they would come to realize it when for instance they would talk about American Football which I have never watched, or when I would randomly mispronounce a word that I havent used that much before. Im not considered by americans as french either. They dont really comment on it; thing is I know how a word sounds I just sometimes mispronounce it and then auto correct myself. People just consider me as a rare commodity, an American raised in Europe. So do you identify more with french or Americans? I don’t identify at all with French, because I’m not. I don’t even have a French passport. But you lived there your whole life. Yes but those circumstances have given me a more European feeling that a French feeling I am part of this generation of kids that have mixed nationalities in Europe and consider themselves as Europeans. But you could easily get a french passport. Yes but I wouldn’t want it. Why’s that? I definitely come from France, am used to eating habits, but i feel different than the average french. Mainly tax purposes, but also because I am weary of France and wanted to leave for a while. Why are you weary of France? In my opinion France hasnt been evolving lately and its stagnating views are leading it to its downfall. And because it isnt turned towards international careers France is very Chauvinist, and being multicultural isnt seen as a high asset like in the States. Why do you think that is so? Hard to say, but part of it is because France was once a great country on an international level. Its greatness has been withering ever since and i believe its people feel that way.